October 3, 2026
Recovery in the Jungle with DJ
Chapters (18)
- 0:00Welcome to the Student Series
- 1:12Three days in the jungle
- 2:41Choosing to put the phone away
- 3:18Sitting with discomfort
- 5:05Coming back to the phone
- 6:11Books, music, and time by the river
- 7:09Sitting still and watching nature
- 8:07Feeling at home with yourself
- 9:08Being alone and feeling held by nature
- 10:23The simple things that help
- 11:07Falling Upward by Richard Rohr
- 11:42The jungle after dark
- 12:19A conversation about fasting
- 13:43Old stories and writing them down
- 14:45A new appreciation for food
- 16:11Time feels different here
- 16:56Watching the sun instead of the clock
- 17:12Closing conversation
Nekawa Podcast EP.3 | Student Series. Hosted by Charles D. Johnston. Guest: DJ.
Three days in the Atlantic rainforest, a phone put away by choice, and a conversation about discomfort, attention, and returning to the simple things. Watch the full episode above, listen to the audio, or read the complete transcript at the end of this page.
Three days with fewer distractions
What fills the day when the phone is no longer within reach? In Nekawa Podcast EP.3, Student Series, Charles D. Johnston sits down with DJ in the Atlantic rainforest near Paraty, Brazil. DJ has just returned from three days in the jungle. Their conversation moves through discomfort, books, music, time alone, and the feeling of coming back to himself.
DJ describes a personal experience that included fasting and a psychedelic experience, as well as time without his phone. Charles explains that support was present, although DJ spent portions of the time alone. These details matter. This is a conversation about one student's experience, not a set of instructions for recreating it.
Choosing to put the phone away
For DJ, handing in his phone was a choice. He distinguishes that from being told to give it up. Making the decision himself gave him a reason to examine his relationship with the device: what he was consuming, how often he reached for it, and what was pulling his attention toward the outside world.
When he returned, the phone was still there. The difference he noticed was in how he wanted to use it. He describes checking it, then deliberately staying off it before bed as part of a nighttime routine. He also names his family and loved ones as a source of support. The conversation leaves room for a useful question: which forms of connection help you feel supported, and which habits simply fill the silence?
What filled the hours?
DJ brought books and a guitar. He read, played music, walked, and spent time near the river and waterfall. He also describes conserving his energy because he had been fasting. The days were not empty, even when they were difficult.
Charles recalls DJ sitting in front of a fire and watching the waterfall for long stretches. There is a familiar image here: attention can behave like a browser with too many tabs open. With fewer things competing for it, a single ordinary scene can become easier to notice. In this interview, the fire, water, trees, and changing light give the conversation its setting and its rhythm.
Neither speaker presents a formal measure of what changed. What DJ offers is a description of his own attention and experience. Reading a book or playing an instrument had been familiar suggestions before; here, he says, those simple activities felt easier to understand from the inside.
Discomfort, solitude, and support
DJ is candid about the third day being challenging. He describes uncomfortable thoughts and strong emotions, especially while alone and without food. Later, he talks about the jungle becoming loud at night and his mind playing tricks on him. These are part of his account, alongside the quieter moments.
The conversation also distinguishes time alone from the feeling of being isolated. DJ describes feeling held by nature and understanding recovery as a return to himself. That is his personal meaning, rather than a promise that another person will have the same experience.
For someone listening with a loved one in mind, the practical question is about the support around an experience: who is available, how concerns are addressed, and whether a plan fits that person's health and circumstances. Difficulty alone does not establish that an activity is safe or helpful.
A book that came back at the right time
One of the books DJ finished was Falling Upward by Richard Rohr. He remembers encountering it earlier through Alcoholics Anonymous. Reading it again at this point in his life felt different. He says he could understand, see, and listen a little better.
The book is a detail of DJ's story, not a clinical recommendation. Its reappearance gives the episode a quieter point about timing: sometimes the material is familiar, while the reader has changed.
Putting old stories on paper
DJ describes noticing familiar beliefs and stories that he continued to tell himself. Writing them down gave him something he could see and process. In the conversation, journaling becomes a way of taking an internal experience and placing it on the page.
The speakers connect these observations to fasting and psychedelics as they discuss their own experiences. This interview cannot separate the effects of the different activities, establish a cause, or demonstrate a treatment outcome. The editorial takeaway is the act of reflection DJ describes, without turning the circumstances of his experience into advice for others.
Food, sunlight, and a different sense of time
Near the end of the episode, DJ remembers the energy and appreciation he felt after his first meal. The conversation then shifts to time. Instead of checking a clock throughout the day, he had started noticing where the sun was and when it was going down.
These observations bring the interview back to ordinary things: a meal, a book, a guitar, sunlight, and people who care. They are also a useful way to listen to the episode. Rather than expecting a single dramatic answer, notice the details DJ returns to and the questions they raise about his daily life.
Health context for this conversation
The episode contains personal opinions about fasting, psychedelics, and sleep. It does not establish their safety or effectiveness, and it should not be used to plan a fast, stop or change medication, use a psychedelic, or go without sleep. Decisions involving substance dependence, withdrawal, nutrition, medication, or mental health should be made with qualified professionals who know the person's circumstances.
Ibogaine also carries serious cardiac risks. In a small observational study of opioid-dependent individuals, researchers reported clinically important QTc prolongation, alongside bradycardia and ataxia (Knuijver et al., 2022). QTc relates to how long the heart takes to electrically reset between beats. Prolongation can increase the risk of dangerous rhythms. The study was not a demonstration that ibogaine is safe. The clinical guidelines likewise emphasize medical assessment and monitoring (Dickinson et al., 2016).
Nekawa is a wellness education and hospitality program. Independent licensed physicians provide medical care. A student interview complements a conversation about someone's experience; it does not replace an individual medical assessment.
Continue the conversation
Watch the full episode above, listen to the audio version, or use the complete transcript to revisit a moment. If you are exploring Nekawa for yourself or someone close to you, a free discovery call is a place to ask about the program, the support available, and the role of independent medical care. Bring your questions, including the difficult ones.
Frequently asked questions
Related reading
References (2)
- Dickinson, J., McAlpin, J., Wilkins, C., Fitzsimmons, C., Guion, P., Paterson, T., Greene, D., & Rasmussen Chaves, B. (2016). Clinical guidelines for ibogaine-assisted detoxification (1st ed., Version 1.1). https://ibogaineguidelines.com/
- Knuijver, T., Schellekens, A., Belgers, M., Donders, R., van Oosteren, T., Kramers, K., & Verkes, R. (2022). Safety of ibogaine administration in detoxification of opioid-dependent individuals: A descriptive open-label observational study. Addiction, 117(1), 118–128. https://doi.org/10.1111/add.15448
Transcript
Complete transcript of the final episode, formatted from the corrected English caption track. Spoken wording and informal phrasing are retained. Paragraph timestamps refer to the final edit. Charles D. Johnston and DJ sometimes speak within the same caption, so sentence-level speaker labels have not been guessed. Statements about health in this transcript are the speakers' views; read the editorial safety context alongside them.
[00:00] Welcome back. We are here with the Nekawa podcast again for our student series. I have here with me DJ. Hello. Thank you for joining. Of course. We are in the jungle today so we're testing out what it's like in the jungle. If the glass fogs or you hear rain, yeah that's why. Yep. Now why are we in the jungle? That's an even more important question. Well, first I'll tell you the Nekawa podcast. What we do here is we talk about what we're doing at Nekawa Ibogaine in Brazil, which is a jungle campus focused on helping people overcome substance dependency and all matter of mental health and difficulties in their life by placing them in the jungle and also experiencing things like Ibogaine and Ayahuasca and a lot of lifestyle and philosophical approaches to overcoming their challenges.
[01:00] So we're here with DJ and the reason why we're here is because you just spent three days out here in the jungle. I did. I did. Yeah, we did three days out here and a lot of it was in isolation. You say we, like what the monkeys and the monkeys? Yeah, yeah. A lot of it was in isolation and did it fasted as well and volunteered to do a digital detox at the same time. So it was a really profound experience and it allowed me to really have an inward journey and experience over the last three days.
[01:42] Yeah, so three days, no phone, no food and no communication. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And how often do we do that in our lives? Not very often. Yeah, not very often. So yeah, this was something we wanted to test out and see what kind of experience it was. Put someone in the jungle, let them explore being by themselves. And so I think people are going to be curious what this was like for you, because the idea of being out without your phone for three days for a lot of people is a novel concept.
[02:18] But then also not having any food for three days and then also having a psychedelic experience out here by yourself in the jungle. Well, you weren't by yourself. We were with you, but you were at times by yourself throughout the three days. Tell, give, you know, share a little bit about that. What did you do? How did you take up your time? What was it like for you? Yeah, I think we could start with the phone first and doing the digital detox. And, you know, I think there was a lot of power in me turning in my phone and not being told to or anything, but taking a look at the relationship that I do have with my phone and the outside world.
[02:57] And yeah, I think that we can all probably benefit from turning in our phone for a couple of days and just to reflect on the relationship and what we're consuming on a daily basis. And yeah, you add no food into the mix and a psychedelic experience as well. You know, a lot came up and a lot of like big emotions. And it's really hard to to sit with the thoughts, the thought processes that are going through your head. And, you know, the third day was very challenging for me. Being up here all alone on the third day and not having anything to eat.
[03:36] And your mind starts to go to places that are uncomfortable. And it's almost like survival kicks in, in a way. And so it was very interesting for me to see that and to work through that. And that's something that I'm learning here is that we can work through through anything. And when you don't have these default survival mechanism coping skills to fall back on, yeah, it can be challenging, but it's really empowering a way to work through it. Yeah, exactly. Do difficult things, right? That's what people always say. If you want to get stronger, you do hard things.
[04:15] And I think a lot of times when someone goes to some kind of treatment center or they're looking to deal with their mental health, they want to get treated. They want to get babysat because they think they need someone there to hold their hand through what they're going through. But actually, I think the opposite is true. And that's why we propose this, because I think the more difficult it becomes for you, the more you can express what's going on through suffering of just it's not real suffering. I mean, being without your phone, it's not like, you know, hey, oh, man, you know, but it, it causes you really to have to.
[04:55] Well, well, and I'm curious, in that note, have you noticed you've been back a day? How have you noticed your phone in since being back? It's been about 24 hours or so, 20 hours. Yeah, it's been it's been much better. I checked it when I got back. But one thing that I tried to do, my sleep was a little bit funny over the past couple of days with the fast and everything. Yeah, not eating. You can't sleep very well. Yeah, you don't sleep very well. So I made it a point to get a really good nighttime routine yesterday and to stay off my phone before bed. So I think, yeah, just looking at the and a lot of things on the phone are distractions at the end of the day. And I'm here to heal and to get better. And I want to stay grounded in that.
[05:38] And, you know, my family, my loved ones are all there for me and supporting me through this. And that's pretty much all that matters. Yeah, exactly. You don't need to, you don't need to be in contact with the world so as much as we think. Now, what did you do while you were out here? Because I think a lot of people are wondering, okay, if you don't have a phone, you don't have anything to eat, there's not much going on. What do you do in the jungle for hours? You know, you were out here approximately close to 70 hours and most of that time was by yourself. Yes, so I prepared, I brought a couple books. So I was able to read a lot and read spiritual books and things to get my mind moving and my thinking in a good place.
[06:27] And then I was able to walk around and see a lot of things in the jungle go for walks. I was fasted, so I tried to conserve my energy at the same time. So I couldn't go too hard out there. But yeah, the river was back here, so I sat down there and I got to watch the waterfall back here. I brought my guitar, so I played a lot of music while I was up here. Yeah, just things to keep myself busy and things that I've wanted to do for a while. But yeah, I stayed busy, I felt like, between the moments of craziness.
[07:09] Well, I remember when I came out here, you mentioned you were sitting in front of the fire for a while. You were already sitting in front of the fire for a few hours watching the flames, watching the waterfall for a couple hours. There's some magic to that, just being able to sit still and watch a natural process of the world, like the rain or the trees and marvel. And I think that's when you talked about, I think we can jump to the psychedelic experience. You mentioned during the psychedelic experience that you were sitting and you were watching the trees. And this is something that happens to a lot of people when they have a psychedelic experience, is they notice what's already there in front of them. And so that was happening both before and after, and during the experience.
[07:58] Yeah, how were you feeling when you were just sitting there staring at seemingly nature? Yeah, I mean, you feel taken care of in a way. And you feel as psychedelic as it is. You feel very one with nature and you feel kind of this returning back home. And I really believe that that's what this process is and recovery. It's about returning back to yourself and your true self. And nature is part of that.
[08:34] And we can't forget that. And you had mentioned this moment in solitude and isolation. And when we go to treatment in the States, there's not a lot of alone time. You're in a room with a lot of people and you're constantly being herded from one event to the next to talk to someone about something. Yeah, and I can't imagine what good it would do if people were able to take three days to themselves. And I think a lot of learning would happen in that time. So I'm grateful for that opportunity. Yeah, it's something that we talked about earlier was the idea that when you're in addiction or you're in a difficult mental health period of your life, you oftentimes will isolate.
[09:19] And we think that that's being alone. But really, you're not alone. You've made friends with the substance or you've made friends with the experience that you're going through. And that becomes your pacifier, your comforter. Right. You hold on to it, whether it's some alcohol or opiates or depression or anxiety, you bind to that. And that's you're in a relationship with it. And being in the jungle, it's quite different because you let all that go. And then the relationship you have is just with the world around you with the whole experience of what's going on outside of you, not inside of you.
[10:00] And I think it, for me at least, it causes me to open up a lot to just, like you said, to feel held. It's like, oh no, before it was the drug holding me. But now it's this thing making all this noise and aliveness and moving all the time. And it's peaceful and it's not stressed. Yeah. And we have nothing to grab to make us feel better, to comfort us. And that being drugs, the phone, whatever our distraction, whatever our comfort is, when that's taken away, then you start to gravitate toward things that are more healthy.
[10:42] Like reading a book or an instrument or, yeah, doing something creative, even going for a walk. These things that are said all the time in the recovery space. But I think oftentimes I wasn't able to internalize it. And I'm sure other people haven't as well. How healthy just a walk can be or just these simple things. Yeah. Simple things. Now you finished your second book while you were out here since you've been here. What was the book that you read? I read Falling Upward by Richard Rohr. And that was the second time that book has come into my life. I was involved in, it was a book that was circulated through Alcoholics Anonymous when I was involved in the program.
[11:26] It was funny that it's come back into my life at this time. I feel like it's a time where I can understand things and see and listen a little bit better. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And was there anything scary while you're out here? Yeah. My mind was playing tricks on me the second night. And we had gone through the psychedelic experience, but I felt like I had landed from that. And the jungle comes alive at night and it is loud and at some points you're going to be a little bit scared. But like I said, we can move through it.
[12:04] And yeah, we stick through it. We can do hard things. So yeah, my mind was playing some tricks on me one night. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a wild place. You mentioned there's some discomfort there. What do you feel like when you're in the community of people who are addressing substance dependence? Fasting is not something that's talked about. You have to fast from the substance that you are dependent on. But fasting from food is a pretty novel thing.
[12:39] It's pretty much only seen in spiritual traditions or if someone needs some health guidance. And I feel like it's a really powerful tool because it brings up a lot of discomfort. This was your first time doing a longer fast, right? Why don't you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah. I didn't really know what to expect with the fast. And, you know, going through this transformation or this process, you learn about, yeah, spiritual guides and teachers that. Have gone to fasting as a tool and you've even heard it in health care where it can be a very powerful tool.
[13:17] And oftentimes when we come into a place where we're trying to get better, people eat all this food. They love to eat. They love to eat. They love to eat. Yeah. Gain weight. Like you need it. And I'm just learning the duality of it all. Like maybe that's not maybe we can challenge that and start to fast. And so going into it, I didn't know what to expect. And I felt like it was a very powerful tool for me to. It's just another thing that I know I can move through. And it and like I said, it brought up like some dark thinking around.
[13:58] Yeah. When I was in the thick of it, a lot of emotions were coming up and stories and these patterns and I got to see it firsthand outside of a psychedelic experience. Because like we've talked about, psychedelics are beautiful in the way that allows us to go straight into self-examination. And but I learned that fasting was just another tool for that because I got to see these these old beliefs and these stories that I continue to tell myself. It's just brought to the surface. And then I could, you know, being up here alone, I could journal about it and I could put it down on paper. So I could see it. Yeah. Process it. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I love fasting. I think I think we'll maybe get up to like a week. Yeah.
[14:39] Yeah. I was like maybe five days and then we go a week. Yeah. But the third day I was like, maybe I'm good for. Yeah, I was I was ready. But like we talked about, I had that that first meal and the energy that I felt after was pretty amazing. Yeah. A real appreciation for food, like understanding what food really can do for you versus just I have to eat at these certain meals or I get very upset. But actually taking time to appreciate it because when you haven't had it for many days, you really understand and appreciate what it is. Yeah, exactly. And it's really funny because there's this concept thrown around by therapists and people that the concept of HALT.
[15:22] And if you're then if you're hungry, angry, lonely, tired, then you should talk to someone or some of those lines. And maybe we need to lean into the hunger and see what's coming up instead of like, oh, I just need to eat. So, yeah, it's funny. I was thinking about that while I was up here. Yeah. Maybe we could fast from sleeping. Some people do that. Sleep fast. Yeah. And I look at a lot of people in the world and there's ultra runners who run hundreds of miles on no sleep and they're hallucinating and still completing these races.
[15:59] So we're capable, capable of it. Yeah. Boy, I don't want to like eight hours, though. I do like my eight hours. Yeah. Yeah. Got my sleep tracker like. Awesome. Awesome. So it was a great, great time being out here. Fun. This is our kind of a test run. I think we'll continue to do this with students and make this available. I think it's an awesome opportunity. We learned this. I learned this when I started going to the Amazon to drink Ayahuasca and started to realize there's great value in just being out here by yourself. You really have time. You really have time and think about time differently. And so I'm excited to be able to introduce that more, bring more students, have them go through this process.
[16:46] And I think the folks, when they get back from their trip and you tell them they're probably going to want to do it too next week. So we're going to set up some more of these. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Quickly like touching on the time. Yeah. You start to to see the outside world and look at when the sun's going down at what time of day it is or where the sun is. And that's something that we don't notice because we just look at the time all day. So, yeah, it was really cool. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for joining today, DJ. Appreciate it. We're going to do another one after this because we have another topic, a little bit more juicy to get into.
[17:22] Thank you for joining us today. We are grateful for your viewership, your listenership. And if you have questions, comments, please let us know. We like to. We want this to be interactive. So anything that we can discuss and help clarify for you, please let us know. And the more difficult a question is, the better. All right. So this is Charles again. Charles Johnston at the Nekawa Ibogaine podcast.
